Taledar said:Silvanoshi said:You may be onto a great ALTERNATIVE idea here.
Imagine that when you die, your corpse drops your inventory instead of ALL of your equipped gear? This is your magical bags of weight reduction/increased slots... Clickies, food, water, reagents, resist gear.. and QUEST ITEMS, LOOT, and CASH gained in the area you died in.
This would still make the player feel the need for a CR without the feeling of helplessness. The player/group would have a fighting chance to get back down to their corpses, but would have to improvise to a degree. Think of a death in EQ1 with this ruleset --- The cleric would no longer have reagents for symbol. The melee wouldn't have their clicky attack buff from Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring. No potions for emergencies. Food/Drink would have to be summoned. Maybe ammunition (arrows, bullets, pet food, ect) would have to be repurchased. Treasure obtained on the way back down --- With no bags, can you say inventory problems? The group is basically not operating at full strength --- And may not be able to even reach where they were prior to their deaths due to this.
Worse case scenario --- You still have classes to drag, summon, sneak, ect... and a healer type to ressurect the exp loss away.
EDIT: Formatting... Eeek!
that is such an amazing idea.... I can't believe I've never heard the idea of just your inventory dropping before. Wow...mind blown
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I actually suggested this on page 2 and in various other threads. ;)
Death should be hurtful but not wipe out an item that might have taken weeks and tons of DKP to earn.
1: A massive revive sickness if you die and ont get revived by an item or cleric to pervent zerg rushing. Say 90 percent reduction in states for 5 minutes or something. Second an XP lose to go with that revive sickness and it has to be a big one. Third you should drop a big portion of your money you are carrying as well. (I remember playing eq2 and losing 30 or 40plat because I forgot to bank and got ganked on a pvp server.) But you should never have the chance to lose a raid item that took weeks to earn and if you have a chance to drop something meaningless then who really cares about that.
I feeltaking away play time is harsh but fair
Aradune said:Quick comment: whatever the specific death penalty turns out to be, I can say now that we're not going with an item system where your items wear down and need to be repaired.
I'm glad to hear there won't be any item decay in Pantheon.
I'm on board with stiff exp penalties and corpse runs. That said, as some have mentioned above, I think there should be a method in towns to 'corpse summon' to get your gear back, provided you lose the ability to gain back the exp loss on the corpse if you take advantage of that option.
I also would prefer no de-leveling. I'm fine with having to gain back a large negative exp debt, but I don't think a character should somehow 'unlearn' what they've learned in their travels.
The harsher the better and at least on par with EQ in the begining. That would include xp loss, deleveling, and corpse runs. No perm gear lose through rotting corpses(Though I would be up for it if they offered a server with it lol).
A guy says i havent seen this in 18 years?
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1/Asherons-Call-2-Fallen-Kings.html
Look at 5:40 on the video.
Death penality's i just thought of Pantheon>? has it been this long since we havent had death penalities.
I know EQ has had them since release but is this what our mmo's have gone towards?
Death penalities are good, keep us away from those cut down versions.
I had to bring this to life again, thought that was funny, how games went the other direction.
I originally thought I wanted item decay only to add immersion and a possible tradeskill repair utility during raids etc, but I remember how much I hated item decay in WoW because it simply felt punitive not challenge-adding. So, after reading Aradune's comment I understand and look forward to the way they are heading.
One penalty idea might be to lock all new XP until your corpse is recovered. That way, if you cant get your corpse you can still do something (like tradeskills or shopping) until your friends are available.
Thgere is only 2 Death penalties that stopped and made me think
The one where if you died you had the chance of loosing an Item. Could be crap could be a raid helmet you just spent 300 DKP on.
the second was EVE death penalty because not only did you loose a ship that could cost you a billions of isk but if you didnt have a recent jump clone you could lose a lot of skill points and if you were flying a T3 ship you even lost a whole skill that takes days to relearn.
Small XP loses Gear breaking was a hinderance but not something that ever made our groups stop and think if we should pull the mob.
Amsai said: @Kalgore You wouldnt stop and think about the idea i proposed? Essentually every 3rd death you delevel.
Depends on how long it took to regain that max level honestly. Is it every 3 deaths No matter what or is there a way to reset it. The issue with deleveling death penaltys is that progression raid guilds are super hurt by it because they are the ones that might die 10 or 20 times figuring out each mob.
I'd love to see a really harsh death penalty in Pantheon. The harsher the better. In fact I'd love to see an ironman server where if you died once you were instantly taken back to level one. I think that would be pretty awesome and would certainly make the game much more enjoyable. There was a server for a brief time in EQ that did that (I think it was called the Discord server if I remember correctly). I'm happy that there is no item repairing though as that never really did anything for me in any games that I played that included it.
Cromulent said:I'd love to see a really harsh death penalty in Pantheon. The harsher the better. In fact I'd love to see an ironman server where if you died once you were instantly taken back to level one. I think that would be pretty awesome and would certainly make the game much more enjoyable. There was a server for a brief time in EQ that did that (I think it was called the Discord server if I remember correctly). I'm happy that there is no item repairing though as that never really did anything for me in any games that I played that included it.
Really? level 1 that is extreme this isn't Diablo on nightmare mode. lmao
rpger4life said:Cromulent said:I'd love to see a really harsh death penalty in Pantheon. The harsher the better. In fact I'd love to see an ironman server where if you died once you were instantly taken back to level one. I think that would be pretty awesome and would certainly make the game much more enjoyable. There was a server for a brief time in EQ that did that (I think it was called the Discord server if I remember correctly). I'm happy that there is no item repairing though as that never really did anything for me in any games that I played that included it.
Really? level 1 that is extreme this isn't Diablo on nightmare mode. lmao
I'm not saying it should be on the standard servers but a time limited server with a scoreboard to see who get the furthest would be awesome. It would be a real community competition. The EQ discord server was fun to play on when you wanted a bit of a change. It was PvP as well and had no rules if I remember correctly. It just made the game feel so much more alive and getting to a reasonable level felt really cool.
Cromulent said:rpger4life said:Cromulent said:I'd love to see a really harsh death penalty in Pantheon. The harsher the better. In fact I'd love to see an ironman server where if you died once you were instantly taken back to level one. I think that would be pretty awesome and would certainly make the game much more enjoyable. There was a server for a brief time in EQ that did that (I think it was called the Discord server if I remember correctly). I'm happy that there is no item repairing though as that never really did anything for me in any games that I played that included it.
Really? level 1 that is extreme this isn't Diablo on nightmare mode. lmao
I'm not saying it should be on the standard servers but a time limited server with a scoreboard to see who get the furthest would be awesome. It would be a real community competition. The EQ discord server was fun to play on when you wanted a bit of a change. It was PvP as well and had no rules if I remember correctly. It just made the game feel so much more alive and getting to a reasonable level felt really cool.
Now that could be fun, with a special server w/scoreboard. No way I would play a game that it was standard in though lol. But I don't believe VR is making different ruleset servers, not at the start anyway.
I'd love to see a server that took whatever the normal exp rate was and cut it in half or more. Meaning it would take even longer to max level and consume content. I know not everyone wants this, though I would prefer the slower pace personally as I believe it would really bring out the sense of accomplishment of leveling and gaining skills as we progress.
I play P99. A Dark Elf wizard. Two nights ago I was able to round up a full group to explore Befallen.
Those of you who remember Befallen, we were at the broken stairs leading down to the door for the 3rd level. The one that required the temporary smoked glass key. We were all about lvl 9-10, with myself at 12. Two caster mobs were on our side of the door, each with a pet. Each of these mobs conned yellow/red. There is also a chance of accidentally pulling the elf skeleton that sits on the other side of the door.
So we're standing there at the top of the stairs discussing strategies for killing these mobs. Cleric was going to root the left pet, I was rooting the right pet, assist on one caster, then the other, while we kept the two pets rooted, then take each pet alone. We had a paladin and a monk in the group. They have a friendly argument about who should pull. Both are obviously scared to. The plan was set, everyone was in agreement after a solid 5-8 minutes of discussion and jokes. It's time to pull ........but nobody moves. We sit there, all of us thinking how crappy those corpse runs are. The paladin jokingly says "Ok, casters, go ahead and root". The cleric says "Hell no I'm not pulling initial aggro. You pull, and I'll root." to which I vehemently agreed. We sit there in silence for a minute. You can practically hear everyones thoughts through those pixels.
"This corpse run is gonna suck."
Finally, the Paladin puffs out his chest and says "crossing my fingers your roots don't get resisted. Everyone ready?" He gets a chorus of "yes" .."yuppers" .."someone hold my hand". He says Inc!, pulls, pets get rooted, the plan goes flawlessly, and we prevail.
In my 17 years of playing MMO's, Everquest is the only one that has given me that feeling of suspense. It's not just having to get the XP back. It's not just having to somehow get through the first locked door for my corpse when my key is on my corpse on the other side. It's not knowing that I'll be awake for who knows how long not just for my corpse, but to make sure my groupmates get theirs as well - it was all of those things combined. I want that feeling again, and there isn't a single of those mechanics that, individually, will achieve that result. It's the combination of them all.
Go back to EQ death penalties. Give me harsh XP penalties. Give me corpse runs. Give me those tense moments when actually NOT fighing mobs is a viable choice simply because it's the wise thing to do.
-Tralyan
Elrandir said: I think I prefer the original EQ death penalties with a few minor adjustments: -an exp debt instead of actual exp loss (not a fan of de-leveling) -an option to summon corpses at shrines to recover gear. This method forfeits any experience recovery, but is available for times when corpse runs are too dangerous or too time-consuming. -If a corpse rots with gear on it, the gear can be recovered at a shrine as well.
I disagree on all counts - IMO, every one of those changes is the make-it-easier dumbing-down problem. Keep them the same or tougher, I say.
Tralyan said:I play P99. A Dark Elf wizard. Two nights ago I was able to round up a full group to explore Befallen.
Those of you who remember Befallen, we were at the broken stairs leading down to the door for the 3rd level. The one that required the temporary smoked glass key. We were all about lvl 9-10, with myself at 12. Two caster mobs were on our side of the door, each with a pet. Each of these mobs conned yellow/red. There is also a chance of accidentally pulling the elf skeleton that sits on the other side of the door.
So we're standing there at the top of the stairs discussing strategies for killing these mobs. Cleric was going to root the left pet, I was rooting the right pet, assist on one caster, then the other, while we kept the two pets rooted, then take each pet alone. We had a paladin and a monk in the group. They have a friendly argument about who should pull. Both are obviously scared to. The plan was set, everyone was in agreement after a solid 5-8 minutes of discussion and jokes. It's time to pull ........but nobody moves. We sit there, all of us thinking how crappy those corpse runs are. The paladin jokingly says "Ok, casters, go ahead and root". The cleric says "Hell no I'm not pulling initial aggro. You pull, and I'll root." to which I vehemently agreed. We sit there in silence for a minute. You can practically hear everyones thoughts through those pixels.
"This corpse run is gonna suck."
Finally, the Paladin puffs out his chest and says "crossing my fingers your roots don't get resisted. Everyone ready?" He gets a chorus of "yes" .."yuppers" .."someone hold my hand". He says Inc!, pulls, pets get rooted, the plan goes flawlessly, and we prevail.
In my 17 years of playing MMO's, Everquest is the only one that has given me that feeling of suspense. It's not just having to get the XP back. It's not just having to somehow get through the first locked door for my corpse when my key is on my corpse on the other side. It's not knowing that I'll be awake for who knows how long not just for my corpse, but to make sure my groupmates get theirs as well - it was all of those things combined. I want that feeling again, and there isn't a single of those mechanics that, individually, will achieve that result. It's the combination of them all.
Go back to EQ death penalties. Give me harsh XP penalties. Give me corpse runs. Give me those tense moments when actually NOT fighing mobs is a viable choice simply because it's the wise thing to do.
-Tralyan
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